Philip Low   Taxi
Hi Valerie,

As I have just got my Apsense Express downloaded, I enjoy every incoming message. This is permission given platform for showing messages to all.

However, when I received 2 written messages from you at a span of merely half an hour, I would consider too much information from the same person. This would agitate me a little, I would not read on anymore from this same writer (however good is the content)

Hope this give you why some people edged up and complain.

Best Regards

Philip Lowe from Singapore reading all messages with smile :)
Jul 29th 2007 00:48   

No longer an active member  
Agree 100% Valerie! Thank you for pointing out this change in spam control.

The beauty about a social network is that spam control evolves into a social activity. The group teaches the individual what is accepted behaviour. This goes beyond the limitations of rule based control, and into the evolved realm of group etiquette and social awareness.

So if a person abuses their privileges with me, all I have to do is block that person. If he or she does the same with another 100 people, then 100 people will block him or her. Irrespective of whether that person learns from this experience, the group is effectively controling the spam. As a community we are here to evolve further, not to sink back into the rule structure that we are trying to climb out of.

So the new spam control is in my opinion a step backwards and contradicts the mandate/mission statement/vision behind a social networking community such as our Apsense community.

Warm regards,
Inaki Legorburu
BBMES Support for uVme

PS. As we are on the subject of spamming, were you aware that something really big is on its way... uVme?
Jul 29th 2007 00:58   

Thea Westra   Adding Wings To Our Unique Life Journey!

P.S. Here's how I determine when something is spam:

When 6 or 7 posts, group subjects, bulletins, mails are all carrying the same information and it is a blatant advert, not personally written i.e. obviously cut/pasted from a website and there's no personal 'voice' to the message.

When a post is not one teensy bit related to the topic e.g. I have a group titled 'Practical Tips For Business Builders' and in there is a subject titled 'Article Marketing'.
Then someone comes along and posts a full message containing information about the latest Lotto website and how much money can be made!
Now that IS spam.

When I get more than one 'Mail' in my Apsense Messages about exactly the same thing and it is a cut/paste advert for a product. No 'Hello Thea' or 'thank you for reading' etc. Just the ad, clearly mailed to me as a mass mailing effort.

I think those are pretty well my only criteria.
Hope that may help others in determining their own personal rules related to spam and still be fair to those who are using Apsense to its full potential without going overboard and blasting adverts all over the place, 'en masse'.

Cheers, Thea
www.forwardsteps.com.au

Jul 29th 2007 01:20   

Thea Westra   Adding Wings To Our Unique Life Journey!

Phillip says that two messages from the same person in the space of 30 mins is too much.

That is a shame.

There are times when I allocate an hour to do my work at Apsense, and in that time I may post a blog, post a bulletin, add a new subject to each of my personally created groups, allocate points to my adverts (banner and other), add something to my Business Center etc.

Phillip, please do not tell me that now I must reschedule my personal online timetable, simply because I'll be hit with a spam complaint from you.

I do my best to make sure that my information is not duplicated, though it may happen that something I add to a Blog may also be sent in a Bulletin. Surely that is not a "spam crime"! :)

I also do my best to ensure that all my posts are relevant and make a difference. I leave advertising where it is intended to be. That is at my ABC and in the My Adnetwork.

Occasionally I'll let people know about a great resource or one of my services via a Bulletin. I also see that as very appropriate.

I understand what you're saying Phillip and it is your prerogative to hit the spam button. However, I am often very busy in a week and like to do most of my posting in one-hour bursts once or twice a week.
Someone with your 'personal spam rule' will cause me to have to reschedule my calendar. That would be a nuisance.

Valerie, I agree. Simply block the person if you don't like what you see. Frankly, I don't mind.
I'm not obliged to read anyone's post and simply move onto the next, if it is of no interest to me.

Namaste, Thea
www.forwardsteps.com.au

Jul 29th 2007 01:22   

Kristian H.   GOT Team Cofounder
Hi all..

Thank you for posting your concerns... the new spam control system in my opinion may not be perfect but it is neccessary. Do we need to tweak it like we do everything else until it suits is best? Absolute! Keep in mind that it is new to apsense as well as relatively new to web 2.0 communities as a whole. So we will continue to monitor the system and see how it goes for at least a few weeks. Then we will make the needed adjustments. So please don't be too hard on this new system... give it a little time.
Jul 29th 2007 02:00   

Mike Hunt   
don`t think you got the right idea about the spam rating Valerie & Inaka, it`s a wakeup call to get people to create worthy content for all, as far as the messaging between one another ... lol ... didn`t even realize there is a "Report Spam" button in the messages.

If someone sends out a promotion message, that`s fine and if they`re reported for just one message, well that`d be pretty harsh but I doubt if anyone will report anyone for one promo message. When I first joined, someone repeatedly messaged me wanting me to "view my latest thang .. greatest thing since sliced bread opportunity" ... that is what the button is for and rightly so.

When I send out emails to my double-optin lists from my websites, there is a link at the bottom of every one where they can unsubscribe ... I wish I had a "Report Spam" button for some of the list`s i`ve been on, i`ve reported a couple but lordy lordy ... what a hassle. Still, I just "unjoin" and usually that`s the end of it. I say usually because i`ve been on some list`s where they have it setup so if you block them, you simply get sent another email from a very similar address.

Came as no surprise the biggest offender I had to deal with actually owned an advertising company ...

I fail to see where the negativity is with it Valarie .. perhaps you could explain because it seems your only worried about your messages being reported, instead of seeing the good this has already done to this community. Your my contact, you don`t send me spammy messages so what are you worried about?

BMMES ... your quote ...
"If he or she does the same with another 100 people, then 100 people will block him or her. Irrespective of whether that person learns from this experience,"

why should 100 people have to deal with it when this system will deal with AND teach that person in very little time? Perhaps the end of your message says it all ... lol

Christopher
Jul 29th 2007 02:04   

Cindy Battye   Entrepreneur
Ha, yeah - I am fairly new here too. But it's my hope that messages that I send out are from people who want to read them. It is totally optin though, so I don't think that spam bans should even apply. If you don't like the messages - just remove that friend.
Jul 29th 2007 02:28   

Eric Smith   Online Professional
I hate SPAM religiously. I do not condone it.. PERIOD!!

But Valerie has a point. We have given members permission to contact us by adding them to our contact list. If we don't like what they send us we only need to block them from contacting us.

Thea mentioned how she dedicates an hour or so to apsense each day. It would not be possible to get through everything without contacting the same person a few times within an hour or so...
Jul 29th 2007 03:41   

Kristian H.   GOT Team Cofounder
Valerie, regarding the spam button in the Contact messages... truth is, myself and a few other Apsense admins said the same thing before the spam control system was added. And we are actually still very iffy about it right now. Personally? Well personally I agree with you, I don't think it should be there mainly because of the fact that recipients did optin and they can easily opt out. But lets give it little time while we monitor it, that's the only way to make the best decisions. Not to mention we could very well find some kind of median after a few weeks of watching the system run.
Jul 29th 2007 03:45   

John Bassett   
Common sense is the basic criteria for an effective advertising campaign whereever it takes place. The main point being with APsense if you have invited somebody to your group of have accepted their invite, you are now obliged to communicate with them as a professional associate, not as a target for unjustified blatant advertising.

Personalising messages to individuals is a priority not an option. In the times passed people wrote letters in hand writing and those letters had a certain etiquette. It seems those basics are being over ridden with expedience to get what you have to say out there to the masses whatever way you can and completely over looking the fact that some people a just being plain obtrusive and rude.

How about if you send somebody a message along the lines of "I have found something you might like to take a look at , please can I send you the details? Thank you. Yours sincerely who ever." If they say "No thanks." That's your advert in the spam bin where it belongs.

John Bassett in the UK
Jul 29th 2007 03:49   

Kowgirl   
I can't say that I hate it because one of the best opportunities I have ever
joined was from a guy who sent me "spam ". Half of my email box at Yahoo is spam. I don't consider messages from people who are members of the same programs as I ,as spam. There is no way to avoid it so I just go with the flow...
Jul 29th 2007 04:23   

Lisa Lomas   
Hello Valerie,

I agree too many are becoming what you call "spam cops".

When coming to this community I understood it was going to have a great
anti-spam policy. What is happening I beleive is a severe misuse of this button.

I sent some thankyou notes just two days ago to some that joined my network and next thing I know I have a rating. The apsense express is a tool one can choose to install or not install so to me its a bit offensive someone calling this spam. The express should not be able to be made spam complaints on as we post group notices, personal notices. Also you cannot over use this so I don't understand these people.

I agree block a person if they are overdoing and sending ads, I personally detest ads through the mail system. I know I am not alone here by fustration with getting give me your money & signup ads through our mail system. Nearly as bad as yahoo some days.

I like the way the groups are functional with 3 strikes and out, that part I beleive is effective.

I am not sure what they propose to keep this fair, I agree it is a very valid point and I hope apsense are taking this seriously. They have a lot of good people here but also complainers so a balance is required from my opinion.

Warmest Regards
Lisa


Jul 29th 2007 04:56   

Graham Hunt   
If accepting someone as a FRIEND (the term used here on Apsense) is giving that person permission to send me Unsolicited Commercial Email (aka Spam) then I will be a whole lot more choosy in who I accept as a friend. For me a friend is someone who shares a common interest, wants to develop a relationship and has the friend's best interests at heart.
Remember what Spam is...UCE. Accepting someone as a friend in my opinion does not give them the right to send me information that
(a) I did not ask for
(b) They did not seek my permission to send to me.
In any other forum that would be considered Spam. At present I have the policy of blocking anyone who sends that sort of stuff to me. Ask my permission and that is a different ball game altogether. But I really do think there is plenty of potential within Apsense to place your offer/biz op in enough places that those who may be interested can find them if they really want them.
Sort it out folks coz as insignificant as it may seem it could the the straw that breaks the camel's back. I have regular contact with at least one person who has given up on Apsense for that very reason, and that is without really tring.
Jul 29th 2007 05:15   

Sonny McGinn   
I have to agree. If you accept someone as a friend, and you don't like what they send you, just block them. I was banned from a website just for putting a link on a Thank You for being my friend comment. The person accepted me, then complained about my comment. Just block them and delete them from your friend list.
Jul 29th 2007 08:24   

Dale Mazurek   
Personally, many of you are going to cringe but in my email accounts I get hundreds of spam messages a day and I actually use them to my advantage. Every spam message I send gets a reply and it has worked great for me. I sign up an average of one person a week just because they spammed me. I tend to not sweat the small stuff. Of course many of the spam messages that get to me cant be replied to. Well people its really not that hard to delete the emails and they are gone foreever.

Thanks Dale
Jul 29th 2007 08:44   

Karen Weir  Local Internet Advertising Consultant
I agree Valerie. First off, I don't like the "keeping score" aspect of APSense at all. It fosters competition as opposed to cooperation which is what social networking is all about.

I would NEVER report anyone for spam ever - not in email, not in APSense. In my mind, it is just as easy to simply block them anyone that I find offensive. In APSense, I would send the person a personal message and if ignored, block. We are all human and entitled to make mistakes. I have no desire to try to harm another marketers reputation, especially newbies who don't know better, and I think it is wrong to do so.

JMHO ~ Karen ~
Jul 29th 2007 10:21   

James Max   Blog Network Community
Spam Meter? What we need is better rules and better control. One person's spam is another person's ham!

I hate "spam and scams" like any other person. I have block and delete set up like a ready shot gun. But these protection is for outsiders who invade my Internet space.

How can you know if your friends want to hear about your products offer?

Should you ask them individually what's their motivation for joining your contact list? Or send out a group mail and ask, then you could delete those who don't want to hear from you.

Let's face it, if you don't want to hear from a 'so-called" friend who is a pain in you know what, all you have to do is remove that person from your friends' list and not reported them as spam after you accepted them as a contact. Sounds like entrapment to me!

Continued... You can read the rest on my APSense Blog:

"Spam Meter? Anyone?

Thanks for sharing. This kind of discussion can only help to mould the system for the better, as Kristian said.

The GoodNews team




Jul 29th 2007 10:34   

Graham Hunt   
If a woman takes exception to some comment or action by a male, she can (and often does) make a claim of sexual harrasment.
If a person sends what in their opinion is an innocent post that is determined by the receiver as spam, then the sender has to wear the consequences.
Bottom line, the determination is left to the perspective of the person who is the recipient. If you send something to me that I consider to be Spam, it is spam, regardless of your intentions. Not fair I know, but then life's not fair. Suck it in and move on.
Max, if one person's spam is another one's ham, does that mean we should never receive Unsolicited Commercial Emails from Jews or Muslims?

Jul 29th 2007 11:27   

Rusty Rose   
I agree with Karen. The last thing I would do is report someone for spam. I was involved in a spam complaint and no matter what I did, I could not prove my innocense. And I was innocent. They were actually a double-optin on my list and they must have forgot and reported me to AOL for spam. AOL told me one more time and I would be banned from AOL. I felt like a criminal. I talked back and forth with AOL and explained to them the problem, but they still insisted that we were both spamming??? That was 8 or 9 years ago and I'm still bumping into places that have my name on their spam list. Block them or take them off your contact list, but get rid of that stupid spam button.
Jul 29th 2007 11:50   

James Max   Blog Network Community
Hey Graham,

I am not going to touch that religious stuff with a long stick, lol!

I stand corrected. Let's say "One person's spam is another person's jam"

I can rhyme all day - that's what I do best.

The GoodNews team
Jul 29th 2007 14:00