Arthur Webster   Just plain honesty
Hi Cheryl,

You are way out of line on this one.

If you are going to compare MLMers with people working on a production line - you are not comparing like with like.

Jenny's point is very valid.

Many sales oriented organisations now offer two styles of contract - one with a basic wage and one with no basic but with a higher commission. The contract without a basic wage can either be employed (so the employer still pays the Social Security and provides other employee benefits) - or it can be a simple retention of services contract where there is an open ended agreement of association (so that the employee can hold himself out as self employed and benefit from the tax breaks available).

The highest paid member of the staff of any company is the top salesman(men) so many of them opt to hold out as self employed. This has led to the Tax Offices in the UK declaring that it is not possible to be self employed and only have one client so this type of contract is less popular nowadays. This move is being closely followed by the tax offices of most European countries,

I don't know which forms they use in America but they won't be much different to those in Europe.

People selling MLM have no legally binding contract and do not have any options. As they climb the pyramid, they may well see extra benefits like car purchase plans and extra bonuses but they will never receive any commitment at all from the supplier of the product they are selling. This is because most MLM structures are outside the core corporate structure of the supplier and are probably bundled up as an associate or peripheral services company. As such, the MLM company can be isolated at any time and receive no products to sell should a corporate hand washing exercise be necessary.

This has happened several times when the direct sales force of some suppliers have had huge success in the wholesale side of trading and supplies to the MLM company dried up.

Looking at any company balance sheet where there is an element of MLM you will see little mention of it except. possibly, as the reason for a contingency fund in respect of "unspecified potential marketing costs". The company does not see the MLM structure as an asset,

The company will not have a profit and loss account that records MLM costs against profit but it will have a current account in its sales ledger for the operator of the MLM - just like it would for any other customer.

In all honesty, the best way to make money in direct sales is to maximise your commission by cutting out superflous commission levels between your retail price and the net cost. Does it not make sense to have a 30% commission all to yourself rather than, say 10% with the rest going to an up line? It takes just as much work to earn the 30% as it does to earn the 10%.

Another aspect of MLM is that most suppliers will not allow associated MLM companies to sell to the wholesale market. The reason is that, quite simply, you work for the MLM company and the supplier is not interested in supporting it unless there is no other way to move its products. The quickest way for any manufacturing company to make profit is to sell in bulk to repeat customers - shops, department stores and multiples. They will not sacrifice this aspect of their business for a few hundred or even a few thousand people selling petty cash quantities. It does not make economic sense.

MLM does have its place - it is the place it was initially designed for - selling door to door a range of products that will probably contain something that the person answering the door has recently realised they need. The major benefit to the salesperson was that they were dealing in a small area and became a part of the scenery, like the milk man and the post man. The Cleaneze Brush Company immediately springs to mind. This was a superb model for its time and rescued many people from penury. This sort of beneficent development by a socially aware company will probably never be equalled or repeated.
Feb 14th 2008 16:38   

Robert McCann  
Hi everyone Being with SFI for quite a few years and giving up a few times I eventually just gave up on the MLM aspects of the business especially when I had over 500 in my dowline and not one of them took any action lol.Now I just concentrate on the products side of the business such as the Internation Home Business Association which is great great anyway sell the package and they are offered to Join as an affiliate.
Feb 14th 2008 19:38   

Cheryl Baumgartner   Medical Billing/Coding/Insurance
First of all if you are part of a legitimate MLM, you do indeed sign a legally binding contract to be an independent contractor for that company keyword being "independent". This means that you can choose to represent only that company or another company as long as there is no conflict of interest.

Second An independent contractor files a 1099 because they have none of the benefits of being an employee. We do not have taxes withheld from our pay, we must pay our own FICA/Medicaid contributions we do not have any of the vacation or sick leave that an employee enjoys. Yes there are tax benefits if you work out of your home which is the benefit of being an independent contractor.

A 1099 employees has all of the same responsibilities of an independent contractor but they do not get all of the tax breaks that an independent contractor has. That is because they are tied to a company as a 1099 employee. They are working in a place of business where the employer get the tax breaks.They cannot claim many of the deductions for their home that an independent or MLM'er can. A car salesman is in most cases a 1099 employee, while he may make more than a W-2 employee, it gets eaten up by medical and dental insurance, loss of wage when he is sick or takes a vacation, FICA and medicaid and the fact that he cannot take advantage of many tax breaks. While a W-2 employee may get a smaller wage, he does not have the financial obligations a 1099 employee has.

Now on to the "Sales force" For the most part Sales force is indeed production line employees. They are working for small mom and pop boutiques that have a limited budget for wages or for a large mega-chain that is not going to pay them much more than minimum wage. They are on the bottom of a pyramid making low wages while the money goes to those at the top.

For the person who gets hired as a cashier selling mouthwash at Wal-mart has absolutely no chance of making as much as the regional manager, unless the regional manager happens to get fired and they happen to luck into the job. But that's if one of the other hundreds of employees don't manage to luck into it or Wal-Mart doesn't hire outside to fill the position. With MLM you do not have a salary cap. Two people can sign the same day with the same person and have results based on their effort.
Feb 14th 2008 22:11   

Beth Schmillen   
MLM is a tough business to be in any way you look at it...

*smiles*
Feb 14th 2008 22:52   

Not Here  just want my account deleted
Hello All,

Well, a lot has been said so far and I have just a few points I am going to touch on.

Jean's comments really said a lot for me(what happened to them?) Integrity would seem to be a word Almost nonexistent in the world of mlm.

Dora, Terrific Service is a vital part of any Well Run business, the problem with a lot of "mlm's" is how they seem to promote you don't have to do anything at all to succeed. On the other hand, many non-mlm businesses these days seem to have adopted the practice of poor or very little service.

On Jenny's remarks about the products that may be or are actually harmful, how many such products can you find in your local supermarket or drugstore? ie: so called 'energy drinks' or toy's painted with lead that we buy for our children or perhaps even certain cosmetics!

Which brings me to my next point, it does not matter what the business is, mlm or not if you go looking for flaws you will find them! Does it make sense to anyone that the real fault lays within the whole monetary system? There is far too much greed in the world, plain and simple.

Arthur raises a very valid point on how companies recruit customers, the question here is other than that they are misleading in their words and with this practice, is there anything wrong with that? Every business needs customers.

Now back to integrity and brainwashing. Out of all the mlm's out there, just how many do you suppose are making MOST of their Money by selling 'training' and promotion materials...to their 'Distributers'!

Cheryl has already mentioned how true mlm does not force you to rely on recruiting people. Many Companies don't, but even of those who don't some of them you'd have to have a huge list of customers before you'd be earning any decent kind of income. Commission percentage in most cases is a definite factor! Now when it does come to recruiting, my BIGGEST BEEF is those who sign up Anyone and Everyone! I know people who will tell you anything to get you in their biz, you all likely do to! Heck I think my uncle(former mlmer) put it best to me when he said something to the effect of "I know network marketers who'd sell their Mothers Teeth for a Buck!" Sponsoring a person into a 'business' when it is clear they have no real idea what they are getting into lacks integrity on every single level...and I believe this is similar to if not the very same breed you had mentioned Jenny.



Feb 14th 2008 23:23   

Joe Frias   Team Atlantis - Best Traffic Wave Team
Like it's been stated here. MLM, Network Marketing, any Online Biz is tough.

Easy to get in, but marketing, was a good program one decided on.

I believe many think, ok I've joined, paid my X amount, now I'm gonna be rich.
I wished!


Feb 15th 2008 00:56   

Arthur Webster   Just plain honesty
Hi, Cheryl,

I've said my piece but we do seem to be talking about two different things. A Mom and Pop outfit would not attract a competent salesman - no prospects.

If you look at Rank Xerox, I believe that, at one time, their top salesman was earning as much as several of the top executives put together. Salesmen are not production line employees - they are the life blood and the beating heart of any manufacturing or service company - as such, they are valued in most sensible countries (the UK being a notable and not unexpected exception).

However, it is worth noting that you and MLMs keep talking about the tax breaks involved in using your home for business.

These are not tax breaks, they are tax deferrals.

I have checked and the rule is the same in America.

If you claim part of your home as a business expense against personal income tax, that part of your home becomes a capital asset for your business and should be recorded in your personal accounts, separately, in your tax returns.

This means that you will be able to claim the costs of running that part of your home and even depreciate the capital value (if you are daft enough). While you stay, there is no problem.

The problem arises when you try to move to another home. Now, you are not just selling a house with no tax liability, you are also selling a capital asset which probably will have a significant tax liability. You will also need to provide a certified, professional estimate of the value of that part of the house you have been claiming against tax (not a cheap service) so that the IRS can calculate the tax payable.

Also, it does not happen often, but many jobsworths in departments that find themselves with a few minutes to spare, could well decide to inspect your 'business premises' and insist on industrial standard safety measures being introduced. As I say, it does not happen often but there will come a time when these inspections will be a regular occurrence as the number of claimants for home business tax relief continues to grow. In case you hadn't noticed, the number of tax payers continues to fall while the number of tax inspectors continues to rise.

Believe me, you do not want to burden your home with deferred taxes.
Feb 15th 2008 03:54   

Joseph Botelho   Investing One Gram at a Time
To be honest with you l would have to say that MLM, is more then likely the most clever form of mass marketing on the planet. There are some many different companies that have jump on this type of marketing. Since the days of the very first MLM companies, called American Way, if the names doesn't Ring a Bell it's because they changed to name Called Amway. Now we have all heard of this company and some of us even joined it. Yes l was one them who also joined at age 21.

Though l had just won the biggest lottery in the world and all of my finacial dreams would come true, well they told me that l would become very successful and l honestly believe them. I had no other reason not too, l trusted my sponser, his upline etc, etc..........followed their footsteps and yes even invested some money, imagine that an MLM company asking your for money. So l bought a few books, some tapes and off l went to listen and read what l had just invested in.

WoW, this is too easy l said to myself, forgot one thing in my very early life people have different attutides and views when it comes to investing some "SCAM" as they called it back then.. I lasted about 6 months and lost a total of approximately $1,000.00 which would have included some of the functions we attended in difference parts of the country. MLM taught me one thing how to obtain what you want and how to get it, this in it self is worth a lot more then the $1,000.00 it cost me. The investment turned out to be the best investment l ever made in my life. why from all of the marketing idea's, concepts l learned and applied to my other business's that l have been involved over the years.

We are all involved in one way or another in MLM, some of us know this, others don't even think or know that we are involved in it. Let's look at Apsense, is this not an MLM company, set up in the same formates that the very first MLM companies did. We have to recurit new members, we get paid on different levels etc, etc.............this is all part of the MLM concept getting paid on what your downline does for you and if you reach certain level you get an increase of the percent you make.

So in the end is MLM really a bad thing, depends on how you look at it, and what you expect it to do for you. I have met many very, very succesful people that got involved in MLM, made a ton of money and believe in all of the concepts it provides the new members with. They honestly believe that all new members can make and become very successful it they follow the steps to get you to the next level. why most MLM have so much Hype and levels and all of the good things to make you work to achieve the next level.

How come l never made it, in this type of business because it is not for everyone and l had a hard time following their rules and some of the approaches they had for you to follow. If you have the right mental attitude there is no reason why you can not become very successful in this industry, providing you have a company that will support you all the way.

I look at nu skin another of many MLM company's out of Utah, l know the founders kids and actually worked with them and stayed over at their place in Provo Utah. I seen what they had, how they lived and how much they made. But like l said earlier it is not for everyone to be able to follow their steps, if you go in and learn what they have to teach you. there is not a better education anywhere in the world on how to market your product. This l know for a fact, the training you get is second to know and the material they provide you with is well worth the cost of any MLM you may join if you read it and study it. Most people would say what a waste of money, well the way l look at it , if invested in it, then l should read what l justed invested in. then l will know if it was a waste of time............

all l have to say on MLM, actually l have more but l am out of wind........
Feb 15th 2008 13:42   

Joseph Botelho   Investing One Gram at a Time
Hey,

One other thing since we have been talking about MLM, did you know that the Orland Magic a Professional Basketball Team in the NBA is Owned and Operated by Rich DeVos, the founder and billionaire of Amway. Guess what the name f the Arena where the magic play out of .............Amway Arena,

just though l would share this bit of information on the power of MLM................
Feb 15th 2008 14:07   

Cheryl Baumgartner   Medical Billing/Coding/Insurance
Let's look at this objectively for a moment. The salesman is not concerned with being independent and making lots of money but in the benefits he gets as being an employee. Therefore the "sales force" has being steadily declining in favor of benefits. Sales force is coming to mean store clerk (often making just above minimum wages and a guaranteed wage. The sales force as you want to call it is becoming populated by MLM, independent contractors

You do have a few industries that are trying to hold on to the sales force such as realtors but look at the situation they are in right now. Many realtors are putting in applications at Wal Mart because they found out that all of that money they made during the housing boom has dried up due to the foreclosure crisis. Most realtors are now opting to become employees because of the fact that they will get steady income without the headaches of being a 1099 filer.

The fact is that this shift to mega-stores is killing the sales industry by placing the sales force under the control of corporations. This gives the tax break to the employer and in return the employer provides certain benefits. However once you are an employee you have a salary cap. The only way to avoid the salary cap is to be a 1099 employee which means you are subject to your employer, you do not get benefits that an employee gets and you do not get the tax breaks that your employer enjoys.

As far as the tax issue, that's why anyone with any sense in America that is a 1099 employee will retain the services of a tax attorney. A tax attorney indeed will get you tax breaks for your home, car and other expenses. And no you will not have a problem selling your home because you have used it as tax deduction. No one besides a tax attorney should even begin to try to understand that tangle of over 10,000 different codes etc. added to that the fact that it changes each year there's really no one out here that is not employed with the IRS or a practicing tax attorney that understands it. We understand just enough to screw ourselves.

Feb 15th 2008 15:06   

Patrick De Thierry   
I'm not versed in using big words in what I post, but I try to convey my thoughts as best I can, so here goes :)

I find that the majority of people who get introduced to a mlm business tend to look at there upline as the people who are making all the money in the business they've joined, yet they forget the work they have put in to start building their mlm business, anyone joining a mlm business should have the thinking that what counts for them to be successful in any mlm business is to think that what counts is who you bring into the business, what counts is from you downwards.

Honestly speaking, if you have the drive and determination and the passion to succeed in a mlm business, then you've just overcome the first step in being successful in it, research is always a good thing in any venture you are about to get involved in, building up your belief in the company, the product and the system they use and working out if it is viable and cheap enough for you to keep building month after month and not go broke doing it.

The business/company must also be honest and not have anything to hide, I believe if there is something secretive about a business, what ever it maybe, then you should stay clear of any business that does not give you all the information of it's self, how can you build your belief in a business/company if they hold secrets and how can you offer an opportunity to someone knowing that.

"Never Should That Be"

So getting to know your business and product and finding the best and most effective way for you to promote that, will always be a big advantage to building your mlm business and also gaining enough knowledge about your business and product so as to answer any questions that newly interested one's might have about your business.

"Always Be Honest"

We all know honesty is the best policy, never build your prospects up on hype, tell it like it is, explain that it does require a bit of work, a few hours a week, any spare time you may have, to utilize that time in building your business, and thats the best thing about mlm business is when you have established a good enough front line, that everyone in your downline will be working to help build your business as well, your really not alone in this.

So teach your downline well, and nothing is as simple as duplication, teach them that method and you will see your business grow in leaps and bounds, never hold anything back from your downline, always remembering that in order for you to be successful in your business, you must help them be successful as well.

There are great people to meet out there, people that will become lifetime friends and lifetime business associates, people that are gonna help you achieve your goals and dreams, people your gonna have a deep respect for, never count anyone out.

And yes the day will come when I will be earning more than doctors and lawyers, but here is the difference, you see I am building a business to make me financially free for the rest of my life and I am gonna accomplish this in 2 to 5 years, for me to be receiving $10,000 a month would be a dream come true, I no longer have to work, yet I took the initiative to do this, but now those doctors and lawyers have to keep working for the rest of there lives if they wanna keep getting the income they get.

"But Not Me"

I have created an income for life, and can even hand it down to my children, not thats enough incentive for me to persevere in building a business beyond my wildest dreams and to see my income go beyond 10k, 50k, 100k a month, now thats exciting.

To your success.
Feb 15th 2008 22:06   

Not Here  just want my account deleted
Hi Joseph,

Thanks for stopping by and sharing. Determining whether mlm is a bad thing and just how we look at it, it is also dependent upon whether it is an actual legitimate company we are talking about. My verdict(in a nutshell...lol) when it is a legitimate company and I perceive the product or service of something of Real Value to people, and I am comfortable with the people who are building the business, there is nothing wrong with it at all! There are many Non-MLM companies I have no respect for just as well as any mlm with a shoddy product or a phony mlm.

I have not yet been scammed by an mlm either. I have been slightly mislead by some characters that were exactly full of integrity(who I no longer work with!), but what I have invested just in the tax breaks or deferrals alone has paid me back without getting into the what I actually have earned or gained in knowledge!

Hello Patrick and thanks for sharing your thoughts!

The 2 to 5 year plan, funniest thing about it is all the big boys out there telling everyone to "think two to five years" have been at it for ten, fifteen, twenty and maybe even more years! From what I have seen the one's who have made it big so to speak never quit doing the basic things. Why, because the biz isn't for everyone and people quit.


Feb 15th 2008 23:39   

Arthur Webster   Just plain honesty
The salesman is not concerned with being independent and making lots of money but in the benefits he gets as being an employee.

I really cannot believe that you think this is true but can only assume that your only experience of salesmen has been those who are considered 'order takers'.

Any competent salesman can earn enough to buy benefits far superior to anything his employer might offer - indeed, the vast majority of REAL salesmen spend as much time finding new ways to avoid tax as they do earning it unless they retain a business manager.

I was a half way decent salesman in my day and would never, ever think that an employed position was desirable. Even today, while my sales skills are used in very different circumstances, I would not consider employment if it was offered. (As it happens, I give my services freely but know how much I could earn if I did what I do for money).

We are, indeed, talking about two very different things. I'm talking about salesmen - I've no idea what you are talking about.
Feb 16th 2008 05:44   

marketsense  
MLM's CAN Be Hazardous To Your Financial Health

It should have a warning from the SURGEON GENERAL so you know the risks going in to A MLM.

There is SO MUCH hype about the money, the flashy websites with beach scenes, fancy cars and big houses. These sites prey on your emotions……. so, what do you expect from them?

They can't appeal to your intelligence and show you the REAL statistics or you'd NEVER join!

Is it realistic for people to buy in to programs to make millions of dollars fast? Many who are attracted to these sites may be one paycheck away from a financial crisis. So they buy in to a system or MLM hoping this will be their Golden Ticket to financial freedom. In the mean time, while they "build their downline", they are financially strapped or go broke.

Let's be realistic and frank about this, ………. face our dreams and study step- by- step how to get there.

We can become clouded by the big picture…. the fancy cars, the big houses, the beach scene, but we will never get there with out a road map, driving directions, or a step- by- step plan. You can't go from 0 to 60 in five seconds flat without being very inefficient and you can't skip 5, 10, 20 MPH along the way!

These people are putting the proverbial cart before the horse. Making millions does not come automatically and not overnight and most often, never.

If you are serious about what you are doing, then you need to finance your endeavor with some real money now, get a positive cash flow that will provide extra income to pay for your business.
You need a steady income now to pay for your product or your electric or phone bill.

There is power in numbers. You wouldn't dream of facing an entire football or hockey team by yourself. But if you were on a team, it wouldn't seem so bad and would vastly improve your chances of success.

Be a part of a team.

www.thesmartzway.com

Millions right now would solve a lot of financial problems but that is not realistic.
How would $200 per month change your life?..........................Pay the utility bills
How about $500?........................................................................... A car payment?
$1000……………………………………………………………… Pay off your credit cards?
$2000……………………………………………………………….Getting close to quitting your job?
Feb 16th 2008 11:57   

Dora Akingbade-Watson   Lifestyle Business Developer
Hey Garnet,
I popped back in here to see if things had cooled down....
Uhm, OMG what have you unleashed????

LOL,

Way to get the old thought wheels a-stirring and some other things
besides..!!!

Have any of these guys been reminded about our Pimp my ABC Comp yet?

Dora

Feb 16th 2008 12:11   

Not Here  just want my account deleted
LOL..Hey Dora, It's all very interesting..as long as everyone keeps a cool head about it all we can continue to look at the WHOLE ISSUE OBJECTIVELY From ALL THE ANGLES! Might have to write another articial on the subject later, believe it's already inspired one or two...

....As for the comp, well if their all faithful group members they have now been reminded..LOL


Feb 16th 2008 18:12   

Jenny Stewart   
Hi there,

I havent been around much these past few days, but popped back to see how it was all going and found this discussion still going strong.

No Dora - there is only a discussion going on - not an arguement or a three act drama. We all have differing experiences of MLM and of multinationals - and I guess our comments are based on our experiences. Mine certainly are.

I can see that there is a certain difference in our understand of what a salesman is. I am certainly not referring to the check out staff or order takers. When i speak of high rollers - I am thinking of the professional sales people employed by very large companies - who are often very specialised people. insurance brokers, money brokers, technical salemen, headhunters (yes they are salemen too) real estate agents and a very long line of etceteras.

Having worked on the legal side of some very large companies and some smaller ones - I have worked with some of these high earners and often had access to the salary roll. And yes I will concur heartily with Arthur on that one - some of their earnings are out of this world - and they only have one business - like many serious MLM salesmen.

These salesmen are usually very highly motivated people who would undoubtedly be successful MLMers too. Because, it is my view, that to be successful in selling anything through MLM you need to be a good salesman! High rolling corproate salesmen also network - they dont knock on doors either.

The highly successful salesmen in MLM are probably people with the similar temperament to the corporate sales guys. The know their products and how to find markets for them. The difference is their salary structures - employed or self employed - is a matter of personal choice. Some prefer to earn lots of money with a pension at the end and others prefer to be self employed at the start. And equally, some prefer direct selling a customer contact and others prefer selling through an network of people with less direct customer contact.

And, of course - there are few MLMs that permit wholesaling - so if that is your interest - MLM is probably out too.

I also suspect that some of the "little guys" who are not successful in corporate sales, would also have difficulty with mlm sales.

And as I personally know far more people who have had a tough time and failed with MLM, but do know more people who are gifted salesmen and achieve a good standard living through direct sales - I refert I am unconvinced that MLM benefits the people join it, as much as it benefits the companies who use it.

The only comment I would make directly to Cheryl is this. There may be certain MLM companies that require their salesmen to sign a contract, but I have worked with two of the legitimate ones during the past xxx years - Amway and Forever Living products and neither my upline nor I ever had to sign a thing, other than a product order form.

It may be the case with some - but not with these and many others. They give training - maybe - depends on your upline, but it costs you money and you dont receive a wage while you learn.


Feb 18th 2008 17:14   

Chuck Bartok   Veteran Entrepreneur now Sharing
Sory I have been aways so long. beginers marketing Class has
been a challenge in getting started...

But that is the beauty of Creating a business from scratch.
No matter how much knolwedge you think you have amassed, there is is
always more to assimilate.

The only waste of time of and Money in business application
comes from STARTING in without a PLAN.

If anyone has deciding to pursue any MLM venture for the purpose of MAKING Moneym, which I assume is the motivation for most.........

Please, BEFORE eagerly giving MONEY and TIME, define your Overall Busines Plan, recognize your Definite Major Purpose.

I have never met a "failure in business" who followed these every simple procedures......
They may not succeed as quickly or and prcecisley as planned,
but they WILL succeed.

MLM will work for ANYONE who applies basic BUSINESS
sense to the Proved Model.

Amazes me how many people set sail on an expected Journey to
Abundance WITH NO Charts or provisons in the Hold.




Feb 24th 2008 02:12   

Cheryl Baumgartner   Medical Billing/Coding/Insurance
Legal nitpicking Jenny but when you sign that order form you are acting as a middlemen for the company and that comes down to implied contract. You are still putting your name on that order form and have now entered into a contract on behalf of that company. The difference is that you are totally independent and all liability falls on you. The company has managed to leave you out in the cold if something happens. You don't have the protection of acting under that company's umbrella of liability.

Arthur, In the economy we have today it is not about what the salesman wants but about the company bottom line, and a guaranteed steady income. Many salesmen are looking at the mortgage issue and are beginning to see that they basically have no security. When it comes to providing for a family, paying insurance cost's of $300 plus per month just for health insurance not to mention all of the other charges and deductions that the employer subsidizes it is not worth it to be totally independent. A salsesman needs to have an income of a least $1500 a month take home to support a family comfortably. He' probably looking at $2000 in payroll deductions he must pay out before even thinking about taking money home. So he needs to earn at least $3500 monthly. So when that month rolls around where can cannot make a sale he is in the hole without income and his family goes without.
Feb 24th 2008 09:14   

Arthur Webster   Just plain honesty
Hi, Cheryl,

I'm sorry but you are missing the target by a small country or two.

The company bottom line is influenced (to the good) more by commission only salsmen than ANY other aspect of profitability or any other level of worker/management. There was a near revolt in the YUK (which simply loves to shaft any British citizen) when the Inland Revenue tried to enforce the "one client - no self employment" rule. On the one hand you had the principals complaining about their massive cost increases necessary to pay good salesmen to stay in the country. On the other, you had the salesmen who could see their high earnings muzzled by company bean counters. A sort of uneasy truce has been declared but the sheer greed, ignorance and self serving stupidity of the YUK government (excuse me while I puke) will, eventually cripple what is left of the YUK employer strata.

As for Jenny's legal nit picking.

I have never seen a MLM salesman sign an order. They are always signed (if at all) by the customer. It is the customer that has the contract with the supplier - not the salesman. I realise that some shagnasty organisations do insist that the MLMer actually buys the goods and sells them on. This is a gross violation of fair play. They are, as you so rightly say, passing on their duty of care of the consumer to some poor innocent who has neither the training nor the inclinatioon to be a customer relations expert.

Incidentally, if you really want to nit pick - these same shagnasty organisations are not running MLM. They are running a string of independent shop keepers who simply happen to not own shops (for the most part). They have no duty of care to anybody once the product leaves their warehouse and are having a lovely time spending the extra profits they are winning by being totally removed from the arena in which their goods are sold and used.

I have no idea which salesmen you have ever mixed with but I do not know a single salesman who ever worries about paying his mortgage - they are far too busy trying to find ways to reduce his tax liability.

Feb 24th 2008 11:20