Quality Content Writers Group

Just plain honesty
Hi, Joseph,

Solid management? Hmmm - I know a lot of thick managers, I know a lot of stupid managers but even I think 'solid' is going a bit too far.

Look around the industrialised world today and what is the most costly and least productive sector of society?

Management!

Look at the national Health Service in the YUK - over 14 levels of managements to do nothing but get in the way and waste time attempting to justify their own existence while building up their empires. There are three 'managers' for every nurse - and nobody thinks it strange.

Look at just about any manufacturing company in the world and, when it comes to people getting sacked - who goes first? That's right - the producers, the workers, the earners!

There was a time when a manager could do any of the jobs he was asking anybody else to do. This is no longer the case - managers, like prime ministers and presidents only have to convince people they should be there in order to get a good position despite any degree of incompetence.

What is a manager nowadays?

Far too often a manager is a brilliant producer taken from his arena of competence and stuck at the head of a team of less capable members of the organisation. As a manager, this type of person is being devalued, ill used and will, eventually, become just another sad and demotivated member of the management hierarchy.

Less often, but too frequently, a manager is someone who simply cannot be fired but has to be removed from any areas where he might do damage. He gets promoted 'upstairs'. This, alone, should give a more realistic view of the value of management.

Nowadays, a manager tends to be a bloody bureacrat with time on his hands and nothing better to do than try to appear to be effective.

Properly trained, I have found that most workers do not need managers - indeed, managers tend to be counter productive in the world in which we live today. They have absorbed acres of fine print about how to 'relate' or 'motivate' or 'empathise' or 'protect' or any other number of absurdities that have absolutely nothing to do with the job his team are doing.

Properly trained, I have found that most workers have discovered during the training whether or not they are cut out for the job. Most of the teams I have led have been composed of capable performers whose own constant application to their work will make them even better. While I might have had a great influence in the way they did things, it was because I never saw myself as a desk-bound manager - whatever my team was doing. I was doing as well and, because what I did worked, they copied me. In this way I was able to keep abreast of new developments and pass on any that were relevant to what my team was doing.

Modern managemnent couldn't manage to get lost in a maze, blind-folded and in thick fog at midnight. For the most part they are non-productive and much management is positively obstructive.

Far too many managers feel that it is their duty to set times for visits to the toilet, decide who should go on holiday and when, demonstrate their awesome(ly defective) power by berating people who might turn up late and, worst of all, being inconsistent.

"One of the fin arts of management is the ability to communicate the sense of urgency to the people who work for you without lecturing and without being unpleasant about it. The best method is by showing your personal interest in ther projects and their jobs, checking on progress, and being quick to help in any way you can."

No it isn't. The best and most effective and time proven method of management is to roll up your sleeves and get stuck in. If something is urgent, it should be enough to say so and demonstrate the fact.

"Then follow up and see that they carry through as planned. Lend a hand in any way you can to keep them on schedule"

That sounds very much like being a worry wort and that nagging presence that creates discontent through an obvious lack of trust. I have tried to think of a single time that any of my teams let me down - I can't think of one.

"Make it your job to clear the roadblocks out of their way."

If you had any degree of competency as a manager, there wouldn't be any roadblocks - the managers job isn't to clear them but to prevent them from happening.

"Be interested and stay interested from start to finish."

Don't you find it odd that you should even think that you have to say this? I find it predictable because you seem to have a similar experience and opinion of modern management as i do.

"Be interested and stay interested from start to finish." - That's what you are being paid for! Or am I being too elementary?

Those who can - do.
Those who can't - teach.
The rest - manage.

Jan 20th 2008 10:07

"Be interested and stay interested from start to finish." - That's what you are being paid for! Or am I being too elementary?

Yes Arthur, i think for once your. People are appointed to management positions without the experience and have new responsibilities that they are not always trained to carry out.

This is possible the reason that people become demotivated too. Everyone needs to leawren how to do whaty they have to do. there are very few who are born with the abilities, but many who can learn.

Not everyone has good management skills - especially if their promotion to management has come about because of their technical abilities and not their man (person) management skills.
Cummunication skills are something that often need to be taught to managers.

No Arthur, interest is not part of the job description - supervision and control often is. But good communications skills are necessary to exercise the necessary supervision and control without demotivating everyone.

Your cynical observations may be tru for large organizations, but in smaller businesses there is still a lot to learn and there are many small businesses that do function well because there are good communications skills and interest is genuinly shown.

Jenny

p.s. If i could I would send you a sparkly picture on the topic - but as i can't please take it as read! lol

Jan 20th 2008 11:31

Just plain honesty
Hi, Jenny,

More people are demotivated by the fact that their managers are verbose bullies than by anything else.

Managers are not made, they rise to the surface like sodden wood - often they float around, unrecognised, until those above their 'manager' see what is happening.

"People are appointed to management positions without the experience and have new responsibilities that they are not always trained to carry out."

What an indictment of management practices today and what an endorsement of what I am saying. NOBODY has any place in management if they can't do the job. Look at what happens when we get a new chief executive of a country - just like any half baked, know nothing ignoramus promoted to the management team - he/she immediately starts rearranging everything along lines that are more to do with pals than efficiency.

Tony Blurr has managed to reduce the YUK to the sink hole down which every international social security scrounger will eventually disappear. The level of incompetence shown at such high levels should be warning enough for us all.

Smaller companies, fortunately, do not have the budgets to employ people as managers - they have to employ team leaders with the title of manager. It means that the manager is still an integral part of the work force and will lead by example.

It is gratifying to see that many company rationalisations are seriously looking at the role of management. Companies look to the bottom line as a measure of their efficiency and it is noticeable that many larger organisations have drastically cut the number of executive managers while increasing the number of acknowledged team leaders.

While the economy was good, any old reprobate in a management position could rely upon improved results simply because of it but with economies now showing signs of recession, their lack of achievement and ability is being high-lighted.

At long last, senior managers at board level are starting to realise that their future prosperity lies not with a fancy, multi-level management structure but with a solid, reliable, self regulating work force. They are starting to see that if they pay a manager $100,000 a year, he has to earn that in extra revenue as an absolute minimum requirement and are asking potential managers how they would expect to pay their own salaries.

The world is full of competent managers who know their jobs backwards. Managers who can communicate at all levels. Managers who are able to motivate and inspire. Managers who can manage. The trouble is, and America has certainly got a major problem in this area, they are unemployed because their talents are not recognised by those who could employ them because the people who interview them are smart enough to see a threat to their own security when they see one.

Jan 20th 2008 12:11

Jean DAndrea

Retired
Can't add much to this discussion, but it makes interesting reading.

Saw an interesting programme on TV recently, about social psychopaths
in management positions in companies. Made sense to me, as many
managers don't have any other skills except to bully people into
compliance with their rules.

Have also seen someone promoted upstairs as a result of actually
attacking someone physically. Should have been fired, not promoted.

With higher management letting things like this happen, is it any
wonder that we don't often find good management, particularly at
the middle-management level?

Jan 20th 2008 18:19

Investing One Gram at a Time
Hello Ladies and Yes Mr. Arthur,

You have shared some very interesting points here excellent in the sense that we all have our views on management, most mangers suffer from the syndrome ill trained and too no fault of theirs they lack the ability to m,otivate or even train their staff to perform at it's hightest level. If management has not been properly trianed or understand what his duties are how in gods name is he going to be able to get his staff to perform and the expected level of performs. Being in management myself as well as having trained management l have always notice one thing about them they lack confidence in their ability. Management also need to be motivated in order to be able to motivate or train his or her staff to perform at a high level. Most companies fail drastically when it comes to training their management team they fail since they are managers they should be able to to do the expect job and yes to a certain degree this thoery is correct only problem they forgot to ask them if they can do the job.....................Well if l was to ask a manager if he or she could do this and do that the answer would be of course l can.

But in the end as time ticks on one would notice that something is drastically wrong with the team and management will point figures to his co workers and so on never his fault how do you balme the co workers if they have not be trained properly at the task at hand....

I good manager should be like a coach of a team, showing them what he expects and how to do it, by doing it himself other words leading the team with him performing at the hightest level himself but showing and actually doing it we all learn what has to be done how it has to be done.......Lead by demenstrating what has to be done how it has to be done what has to be done in the exact order..................................

But when it comes to taking lunch break most managers sure no how to spend the company money, this is one area they are very good at. The funny part no one trained them how to be so good at it..................They just had this incredible ability of how to perform that task at it's hightest level.......Next time you goout for lunch with co workers and the company is picking up the tab watch what they order. Now if they where paying for it themselves would they order that surfur and turf dish......................people always fasincate me when it comes to a free lucnh or dinner they act so different when the tab is being picked up by the company......................

Jan 20th 2008 18:36

Heck i missed out a word

It should read "Yes Arthur, i think for once you're WRONG"!!

Because being the Community brain doesnt mean you are always right!!!
Jan 20th 2008 19:49

Investing One Gram at a Time
Hi Jenny,

Hey l almost fell of my chair when l read what u said....................No he is different, not anything to do with him being right he just a wonderfull way of taking his time in explaing his thoughs and makes have to read it more then once...................:)
Jan 20th 2008 19:54

Joseph - you know the saying - there is no such thing as a free lunch, LOL (as some of our politicians find out in the end! LOL)

I am totally in agreement with you that training is also an essential part of mangement. A person is often promoted to management because they are good at their job. that doesnt necessarily turn them into people managers with good communication skills overnight . The typical response to a new position by an untrained manager is "bully management"

Although there will always be the managers who are untrainable because they lack the basic people skills, many more will make a better and more productive job if they are taught. And if it is always clear that a promotion to management carries extra status but extra RESPONSIBILITY.

My second boss had the right idea. She used to say that she would never ask anyone to do something that she hadn't done herself. Way to go - but of course she was a woman! LOL
Jan 20th 2008 19:59

Investing One Gram at a Time
Hi Jenny,

Woman do make good managers they have an ability to learn and teach not that all males can't do it just woman focus more on what is at stake and no they have to work harder cause they are a woman, not fair but how it is....................so l agree with u.................
Jan 20th 2008 20:05

Just plain honesty
Hi, Jenny,

I did recognise that the missing word was 'wrong' but then got puzzled because you went on to support what I was saying.

Even in your last post you say - "A person is often promoted to management because they are good at their job. that doesnt necessarily turn them into people managers with good communication skills overnight" - which is what I said - "Far too often a manager is a brilliant producer taken from his arena of competence and stuck at the head of a team of less capable members of the organisation. As a manager, this type of person is being devalued, ill used and will, eventually, become just another sad and demotivated member of the management hierarchy."

Over my years as a consulting and executive fine tuner (an executive who needs training should not be there), one of the things that I have found most amazing is the way many companies miss-use some of their greatest resources.

Many people try to tell me that a manager is like the helsman of a ship - steering it through the seas to a desired destination by the fastest route available. This is demonstrably untrue. The helmsman is simply one member of a highly qualified team of mariners who run the ship with the captain to say where it runs to. Ship-board managers are what real management is all about - training! Motivating someone should not be necessary - if they need it, maybe they should reassess their careers?

I once did a consultation with a company that hand-built top quality motor homes based upon the Sherpa van.

This company had problems meeting orders and, even though they had the best equipment for the work and even though they had very highly qualified technicians, the progress on each job simply did not keep pace with the production time table.

I don't know if you know what goes in to building onto an existing vehicle but it involves some rather radical surgery to install an elevating roof, intricate wiring to provide the comforts of home, plumbing for water and gas and, of course, the furniture. There are other nice touches but those are the main items and they were all done by hand by a team of six men.

It took me about an hour to see where the problems were but I was so shocked that I spent a whole day observing what, to me, was an absolute farce.

At that time there were three managers on the shop floor and seven vans being converted - that is three managers for forty two men. That, in itself, was ridiculous but, when I asked about the area of expertise of the managers, they were all promoted technicians.

It turned out that they had been promoted as the only way to give them a pay rise but the promotion took them out of the work force. Not only did it take them out of the work force, it created six idle hands which, naturally, started to feel the need to justify their existence.

Long story short.

My solution for the company was elementary.
Pay scales were recalculated to reflect qualifications and seniority.
The managers were returned to the work force over the next four or five months during which time they were kept off the shop floor.
As soon as the managers were moved, production speeded up as an osmotic reaction set in and the technicians started to work towards a single goal - completing each project.

I did a final review of the company one year later and found that, not only was production well increased, there had been several suggestions from the shop floor to improve aspects of the vehicles. (Previously these would have been presented to a manager who would either kill them or adopt them as his own ideas.)

As Joseph implied, far too many managers, once they get that appellation, feel that they have 'arrived' and that the way to prove it is to be either an invisible source of support (a very rare specimen indeed) or a meddling twit trying to justify his existence. Too many managers have too little to do and so, do too much.

Jan 21st 2008 04:14

Investing One Gram at a Time
Hi Arthur,

Very well said hard to top that comment.
Jan 21st 2008 09:48

Hmmmm

Arthur you have just said "an executive who needs training should not be there!" And I disagree with that 100%. An executive who is UNTRAINABLE should not be there, but there is always room for someone who is capable of learning new skills
Jan 21st 2008 20:37

Investing One Gram at a Time
Hi Jenny,

I can hardly wait to see what he has to say, l would have to agree with you that management who not trainable then should not be there......................but it all has to do with the cost factor...........they miss the ball everytime when they think they are saving money in actual fact it cost the company money in productions and among all the other things that get screwed up such as delivery times, and so on and so on...............we could write a book on this subject by it self.....
Jan 21st 2008 20:47

Just plain honesty
Hi, Jenny,

There is whole world of difference between 'training' an executive and refining his skills.

Most people have a proclivity for a particular aspect of human endeavour. I'm very fortunate in that I can communicate, present both sides of the same case with equal conviction and create an atmosphere of 'ease' around me.

Many people seek out my opinions but I am not what I consider to be a leader because my dedication to enjoying being alive leaves me with little real time to be followed anywhere. I do, though, spend many hours each week trying to understand what makes people tick.

One of my activities calls for me to have a deep and intimatre understanding of a life-style that is totally alien to me. Because I learn intuitively, I have achieved much understanding with little conflict with my own concept of a happy existence.

Having been an observer all of my life, it amuses and amazes me that so many people subdue their natural talents in order to force themselves into a role for which they are simply not equipped. I know accountants who would be far more happy and probably much more successful doing less cerebral work - I know doctors who accept that they chose the wrong profession but have invested far too much time in learning what they no longer want to be to be able to give it up.

The role of management in this modern, psycobabble ruled world, is a balancing act between providing an example for others to follow, a source of inspiration and expertise, the focal point of their team and, of course the nurse maid to all team members to ensure none of them have their delicate senses of justice or rectitude insulted in any way.

There was a time when a manager could only come from the ranks and would be chosen, not only for what he knew but the way his team worked with him. These managers were the back-bone of the industrial revolution and provided the drive that created a silicon, virtual reality for us all to live in from time to time.

These managers were stable because they only needed to concern themselves with three aspects - providing an example for others to follow, a source of inspiration and expertise, the focal point of their team. This type of manager is now a very rare thing because his very stable three legged stool has been corrupted by a fourth leg being added by having to be the nurse maid to all team members to ensure none of them have their delicate senses of justice or rectitude insulted in any way.

When it comes to modern management training, the emphasis is not on the processes by which the company earns it's profits, it is upon all the psycotrash that is supposed to be so important. Managers are trained to 'understand' things that they do not accept at a personal level and so, ignore later, at a performance level.

You cannot train an executive - they either know their job or they don't. If they have spent any time doing the jobs related to their management position they will know the practical side of things and, if the personel manager knows his job well enough, he will also be the type of person who will be an asset in a management position and not a liability.

One of these days, self respect will return and people will realise that they are responsible for the way that they fit into society. Children used to learn this at home from their parents and siblings - now this is denied to them by well intentioned teachers(sic) who have read a book or two and imbue their pupils with personnas that simply do not exist at home. This creates clashes between children, parents and teachers and creates a whole raft of social problems that we witness every single day.

Teachers are the 'managers' of their class rooms - when a teacher has to spend a full week on a teacher training course in "how not to be alone with a child" in order to (hopefully) preclude the dangers of being accused of child molestation, you can see why some of them are not as good as they could be, given reign to their natural talents.

It is the same with all managers - managing isn't what they are being taught - they are being taught to walk on egg shells and be forever looking back over their shoulders in case they have inadvertantly upset some tremulous little flower that should never have been there in the first place,
Jan 22nd 2008 05:00